Monday, February 22, 2010

This Is Why You Close The Bag...


...because if you leave it open, eventually it becomes awful. In anticipation of tomorrow's Porn Day here (if Nate B's mother doesn't make the list, the list is a joke!), we are going to talk about some college hoops. In fact, every Monday through the championship game, we will be talking about roundball. Why? Because college basketball this time of year is awesome...and there is no football.

I'm watching the Ohio State/Michigan State game yesterday afternoon and something dawned on me while I witnessed Sparty lose to a team that any MSU team in the past decade would have beaten by 20: this program is off. Something isn't right. These aren't the same Spartans that I am used to seeing.

Let's say that you go to the grocery store and pick up a bag of cool ranch Doritos because they are awesome. You get home, open the bag, and plow through half of it in 5 minutes. Realizing that you want to have some around for a later date, you put the bag down and store it for future awesomeness. And that's the thing. You remember to close the bag so that the next time you go after them, they still have the same great taste. The crunch is very important to the overall satisfaction of the chip. If you keep leaving the bag open, eventually, those once great Doritos are going to turn into a sort of thing that tastes like Wheat Thins and shit. Basically, just don't let those fuckers get stale on you.

That is exactly what is happening in Lansing and Tom Izzo is just letting it happen. Sure, they are still a top ten program in college basketball and the best in the Big Ten and there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. But is that good enough anymore? Yeah, they are pretty much a lock to make it to the Sweet 16 round every year (with exceptions of course), but they aren't a threat to win the title anymore. And they haven't been for 5+ years now.

Izzo got his bag of cool ranch Doritos a decade or so ago with Mateen, Mo Pete, and Company. It appeared to be a bottomless bag of greatness that would be never-ending. But he started losing his assistant coaches and seemed to shift from recruiting the studs to recruiting good players that would stay for four years (Zach Randolph likely helped with that...and Marcus Taylor, too). So little by little, he wasn't closing the bag after every use. It's about 80-85% shut still today, but air is getting in and the program is getting stale. They are boring. They don't churn out pros. They win 20+ non-descript games per year. It's the same old thing and it's starting to get dull to me. Kalin Lucas is a fine player, but you aren't going to win a title when he is your go-to guy. Period.

Did that make sense? I think so. I've been nails recently on my analogies. Look, I'm not suggesting that Izzo needs to go, but he does need to do something to un-stale his product.

And that leads me to my question today: Would you rather have a program like Michigan State or Duke in which they will always be competitive but never a true contender for the throne...or would you rather be like North Carolina or Kentucky in which they load themselves with one-and-done's in an attempt to cut down the nets but there would be some down years while re-stocking the shelves? Personally, I like UNC/UK approach in which you bring in the studs and try to win with them while they are there. You worry about the future later. I'm interested in the response on this one actually.

Now if you don't mind, I've got to go polish off three bags of cool ranch Doritos. Remember...WE ARE TALKING PORN TOMORROW!!!

34 comments:

Grumpy said...

I hate one and done mercenaries. Give me a Mich. State or Duke any day. Bring on the porn!

Kenneth said...

Great reference, except now I want a bag of cool ranch Doritos.

Anonymous said...

You remember that MSU played in the national championship game and beat some bad ass teams on the way last year, right?

I prefer the MSU way. OSU's been too fucked by one and dones...and several of them even sucked. Of course we've got the # 1 recruiting class in the nation coming in next year, so I'm probably going to watch us lose a couple more after one year.

Evan Turner 4 NPOY!

--Drew

GMoney said...

I said "there are exceptions". They also lost to George Mason in the first round a few years back. Will you please fucking read.

Without one-and-done's, you would not have that NIT banner!!! KOKO BABY!!!

Mr. Ace said...

What Michigan State has done over the last decade is nothing to scoff at. When you look at recruiting, you can't even compare Sparty to any other top tier teams. Sparty doesn't recruit nationally. They get the best players in Michigan and sometimes Ohio and then are lucky to pull one recruit per year that isn't from Michigan or Ohio. Tom Izzo is doing the same thing he has done the entire time he has been there.

Wish me luck, it's time for some serious porn watching. Hopefully my keyboard will still work when I'm done.

Anonymous said...

What MSU has really lacked for the better part of a decade is a great scoring wing. They haven't even had some that is on William Buford's level in my opinion. And Raymar Morgan seems to only get worse each year.

Ace is correct in Izzo's recruiting strategy too. He really does well in NE Ohio and he plucked a kid wiht a ton of potential in Adrien Payne from Dayton for next year.

I can't wait for porn day.

--Drew

GMoney said...

Good point about Morgan. He has gone from next MoPete to a glorified Aloysius Anagonye.

Why is Izzo only recruiting regionally? His track record speaks for itself. I don't think he would be wasting his time if he went out to California.

Anonymous said...

Yeah.. 2 final 4's including a title game in the last 5 years. Real stale. Didn't George Mason lose the title game when they beat MSU? I hate Sparty, but to say they've gone stale- especially after their runner up season, is ridiculous. What other programs have accomplished what they have in the last 5 years?

Dut

Anonymous said...

Kentucky and UNC have a combined 12 National Titles and are 1 and 2 for most all-time wins. I'll stick with what they do, they are just a tad more successful than Duke and MSU.

Seal

Anonymous said...

Dut....you are correct.

G$...you are wrong.

--Drew

Anonymous said...

One thing Dut wasn't correct on though...George Mason lost in the final four..not the championship...still far though.

--Drew

GMoney said...

I'm not wrong. MSU IS a stale program that is very good but doesn't necessarily try to be great. They do things their own way but that way is really conducive for winning titles. I would much rather have the Matta approach of bringing in the sick talent, going all-in with it, and if they leave, you deal with it later.

How fucking overrated was Marcus Taylor? Holy shit, he sucked.

Anonymous said...

How overrated was Marcus Taylor? As overrated as Kevin Tolbert was...and that's extremely overrated.

I think many college basketball programs would like to be "stale" if it means they made two final fours in the last five years.

--Drew

Mr. Ace said...

When Kentucky and UNC were winning all their titles one and done wasn't an issue, so bringing up their history is pointless...it's been a decade since UK won a title.

Also, lumping in Duke with MSU is really a slap in the face to MSU. Look at Duke's recent history in the tourney, it's fucking embarrassing.

Sparty is a GREAT program. It's fucking hard to win titles in college hoops...they have this thing called a tournament where if you lose one game you are done. There is so much talent out there and so many really good coaches that it is just hard to win titles. Again, Izzo has to run his program the way he does.

When has a team won a title with a bunch of one and doners? It may get you close, but those teams just don't win titles. Give me consistency everyday, especially if that pretty much guarantees me a Sweet Sixteen birth every year.

GMoney said...

Maybe one-and-done is a stretch. Let's clarify that by using multiple early NBA entrants. With that, UNC twice, Kansas, Florida, and Cuse all come to mind right away without any digging at all.

You just aren't going to win a title with nothing but 4 years guys anymore.

Anonymous said...

To quote mr. Ace " Again, Izzo has to run his program the way he does."

I would like to know where in Izzo's contract it states that me must only recruit players from Ohio and Michigan? What a stupid fucking comment. Youre telling me he CANT recruit a stud from the west coast?

And if you say we are only allowed to talk about the past ten years (which is not what gmoney said at all) then look how many teams have won titles with freshman loaded teams. Almost half in the past ten years. So dont fucking tell me that "one-and-done" teams arent winning titles.

Seal

Anonymous said...

I just looked at Sparty's roster. Currently they have one kid from Georgia (Chris Allen) and one from Wisconsin (Korie Lucscious). The rest are OH and MI kids. So, that does pretty much sum up his recruiting areas.

I'd argue that Thad's area is not much larger though. He pretty much just goes after Ohio, Indiana and Chicago. He does have a committment from a stud 5 star PG from Georgia for 2011 though...Shannon Scott, son of former UNC star and Celtic Charlie Scott.

--Drew

J Beanie said...

I would take the one-and-done team any day over the MSU approach. Just like G$ said, with one-and-done's you have a chance to win it every year. Wtih MSU, yes you could win it but I don't think any expects them to win it all this year. Championships are what it is all about. Who cares how many 20 win seasons you have or how many sweet 16 appearances. Give me a chance at a national title.

J Beanie said...

Oh, and I don't want to say I told you so but I told you that trading Z could have a negative effect. What was that word you called it G$?

Anonymous said...

And that was exactly my point JBeanie with stating the amount of titles that UK and UNC have. But Mr Ace is always right and every team in michigan does everything perfect. Its obviously proven with all their teams recent success.

Seal

J Beanie said...

Agreed Seal. I would take one national title (or in professional sports, one championship) followed by a few years of losing in a heartbeat. Just to say you are the champions is worth it. And you know you are going to eventually find that special group of one-and-done's again to get you another one before the losing gets too bad.

I love talking college hoops with you Seal.

MUDawgfan said...

This blog was linked on Deadspin.com this morning (in their morning roundup section). All the deadspin viewers are going to pour into this site and the only thing they'll realize is that tomorrow is "Porn Day"

Great day for the blog G$

Mr. Ace said...

If Izzo thought he could fucking recruit on the west coast he would, you fucking morons. You don't think Tom Izzo knows what the fuck he is doing with his program?

If we are talking strictly one and done's, this argument is stupid because you don't win championships with three five star freshman who know they are only staying for one year. It doesn't work. Now, it we are talking about early entrants and including sophs, that is completely different. Or if we are talking about just having one stud freshman, like Melo at Syracuse, that is one and done that is also completely different.

Seal, Kentucky's titles have nothing to do with one and dones, that's why it makes no sense to bring it up.

There is nothing to show that loading up with one and dones equals championships. Kentucky isn't going to win this year. The Fuckeyes aren't going to win next year...or whatever year they have that crazy class coming in.

Obviously, I'm not saying you don't go after five star talent, that would be stupid. But you can't depend solely on five star freshmen to win titles when you know they are done after one year.

Anonymous said...

Your arguement makes no fucking sense idiot. You are saying that since a 5 star stud freshman isnt going to win you a championship becuase it hasnt been done in the past few years that its not worth it to go after them and recruit them?

Kentucky fans and UNC fans dont see making it to the Elite 8 or even the Final 4 as a successful season. They want a championship and anything less is a failed sesason. But i guess when you are used to losing in Michigan you are happy and satisfied with winning a couple games in the tourny with your shitty michigan high school recruits. Thats why you chose the Michigan State way. Grow some fucking balls and do everything you can do to put the most studs possible on the court for your program.


Seal

Tony B. said...

Either way you run a program can win, but it does seem like more one and done programs win championships these days.

I don't think MSU is stale, but they're not beating UK or Kansas this year.

GMoney said...

I like this in-fighting between the NE Ohio boys and Ace.

I was just thinking about this: remember how anOSU fans were slamming Tressel after the USC game this year because it was the same old shit every year and they were bigger than just winning the Big Ten and things needed to change? Not saying that everyone said this, but a majority of people felt this way.

This is the same exact thing.

Mr. Ace said...

My argument has fallen on retarded ears...I quit.

I've got porn to watch dammit, I don't have time for this.

Anonymous said...

I would quit too if I realized the shit I was saying made no fucking sense. Go read up on your college hoops and we'll talk next Monday.

Seal

Mr. Ace said...

Seal, I've got a special section for you on tomorrow's post. It features you, derec alexander, and horse cock...a situation I'm sure you have found yourself in before.

By the way, I fucking hate Sparty, but I am compelled to defend them against fucktards.

Anonymous said...

Im sure it will be a good one buddy - after all the only thing you are good at is your stupid fucking interview posts.

Seal

Anonymous said...

Does nobody care that Boner from "Growing Pains" has gone missing in Canada?

You guys need to get your priorities straight.

-Damman

Mr. Ace said...

Aww...that hurts Seal. I didn't mean to get you all butt hurt over college hoops. Hang in there guy.

Over 30 comments on college hoops day...tomorrow is going to hit 70, I'm calling it.

Anonymous said...

I may make 70 comments about porn just by myself.

--Drew

GMoney said...

Almost forgot...Beanie, I referred to this recent swoon as, THE ILGAUS-CURSE!!!